Discussion:
latest BC news
David Hook
2013-12-13 05:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,

Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd like
to thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also mention
we are off to a bit of a slow start.

You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest
slashdot submission:

http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-crowdfunding-and-cluelessness

Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be
following the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that
come up. It is also a much better place for this discussion than the
mailing lists. Feel free to vote the story up - as the tale describes,
we can do with all the help we can get!

I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.

Regards,

David
Sid Shetye
2013-12-13 06:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Here are my thoughts on balancing the reality of balancing external, real
world expenses (FIPS certification!) with the objective of having a great
FOSS crypto-library

Commercial license:
Price: About USD 100 to 500 (or equivalent currently in developers' country
for, say, 50 cups of Starbucks coffee)
Conditions:
1) Usage of FIPS-140-2 certified binaries AND
2) released within the last 12 months AND
3) for a activity presently generating revenue or an activity directly
supporting previously mentioned revenue-generating activity
Scope: Enterprise level license with free upgrades for 3 years (so if it's
one major server app or a tiny desktop background utility over 5000 PCs -
one size fits all)

Community license:
Price: Donate
Conditions: If doesn't match conditions of commercial license
Scope: Per project

The reason I suggest this is because in corporate America (perhaps elsewhere
too), it's harder to file an expense report under "donations". It works only
if everyone in the purchase authorization chain "gets" FOSS donations. On
the other hand, everyone understands "software licensing" as its usually a
separate line item in the accounting books and a 3 figured license, for
security software, in revenue activities, won't ever be questioned.

I realize there are *many* ways to slice this, but as a non-profit, that
would be my $0.02 so you guys can focus more on the technology and
certification than fund-raising.

Cheers
Sid

-----Original Message-----
From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-lQXO3U89oAbxy1ys+oinMti2O/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:39 PM
To: dev-crypto-csharp-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news


Hi all,

Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd like to
thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also mention we are
off to a bit of a slow start.

You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest slashdot
submission:

http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-crowdfund
ing-and-cluelessness

Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be following
the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that come up. It is
also a much better place for this discussion than the mailing lists. Feel
free to vote the story up - as the tale describes, we can do with all the
help we can get!

I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.

Regards,

David
David Hook
2013-12-13 11:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the suggestion, I think in our case we'd need to avoid
anything which placed restrictions on who could access the libraries,
although that wouldn't necessarily stop us selling licenses either, so
we will be sure to consider what you say. At the moment, if you just
consider it on all raw artifacts downloaded a donation around $20 AUD
each over the last fortnight would have raised our target, currently
we're averaging around 10 cents. It's pretty obvious we're not doing
something right.

We were pretty sure when we started that this was more of a campaign
than a single battle, and we're certainly keen to focus on something
other than fund raising, but we're going to need a few more donations
before we're in a position to do that.

Thanks,

David
Post by Sid Shetye
Here are my thoughts on balancing the reality of balancing external, real
world expenses (FIPS certification!) with the objective of having a great
FOSS crypto-library
Price: About USD 100 to 500 (or equivalent currently in developers' country
for, say, 50 cups of Starbucks coffee)
1) Usage of FIPS-140-2 certified binaries AND
2) released within the last 12 months AND
3) for a activity presently generating revenue or an activity directly
supporting previously mentioned revenue-generating activity
Scope: Enterprise level license with free upgrades for 3 years (so if it's
one major server app or a tiny desktop background utility over 5000 PCs -
one size fits all)
Price: Donate
Conditions: If doesn't match conditions of commercial license
Scope: Per project
The reason I suggest this is because in corporate America (perhaps elsewhere
too), it's harder to file an expense report under "donations". It works only
if everyone in the purchase authorization chain "gets" FOSS donations. On
the other hand, everyone understands "software licensing" as its usually a
separate line item in the accounting books and a 3 figured license, for
security software, in revenue activities, won't ever be questioned.
I realize there are *many* ways to slice this, but as a non-profit, that
would be my $0.02 so you guys can focus more on the technology and
certification than fund-raising.
Cheers
Sid
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Hi all,
Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd like to
thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also mention we are
off to a bit of a slow start.
You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest slashdot
http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-crowdfund
ing-and-cluelessness
Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be following
the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that come up. It is
also a much better place for this discussion than the mailing lists. Feel
free to vote the story up - as the tale describes, we can do with all the
help we can get!
I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.
Regards,
David
Mankowski, Chris
2013-12-13 21:11:35 UTC
Permalink
I'm sure there are a number of people who would contribute, once the word gets out.

Does anyone know if donating to an AU nonprofit (like Bouncy Castle) is tax deductible for a US person/company?

-----Original Message-----
From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-lQXO3U89oAbxy1ys+oinMti2O/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 6:07 AM
To: dev-crypto-csharp-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news


Thanks for the suggestion, I think in our case we'd need to avoid anything which placed restrictions on who could access the libraries, although that wouldn't necessarily stop us selling licenses either, so we will be sure to consider what you say. At the moment, if you just consider it on all raw artifacts downloaded a donation around $20 AUD each over the last fortnight would have raised our target, currently we're averaging around 10 cents. It's pretty obvious we're not doing something right.

We were pretty sure when we started that this was more of a campaign than a single battle, and we're certainly keen to focus on something other than fund raising, but we're going to need a few more donations before we're in a position to do that.

Thanks,

David
Post by Sid Shetye
Here are my thoughts on balancing the reality of balancing external,
real world expenses (FIPS certification!) with the objective of having
a great FOSS crypto-library
Price: About USD 100 to 500 (or equivalent currently in developers'
country for, say, 50 cups of Starbucks coffee)
1) Usage of FIPS-140-2 certified binaries AND
2) released within the last 12 months AND
3) for a activity presently generating revenue or an activity directly
supporting previously mentioned revenue-generating activity
Scope: Enterprise level license with free upgrades for 3 years (so if
it's one major server app or a tiny desktop background utility over
5000 PCs - one size fits all)
Price: Donate
Conditions: If doesn't match conditions of commercial license
Scope: Per project
The reason I suggest this is because in corporate America (perhaps
elsewhere too), it's harder to file an expense report under
"donations". It works only if everyone in the purchase authorization
chain "gets" FOSS donations. On the other hand, everyone understands
"software licensing" as its usually a separate line item in the
accounting books and a 3 figured license, for security software, in revenue activities, won't ever be questioned.
I realize there are *many* ways to slice this, but as a non-profit,
that would be my $0.02 so you guys can focus more on the technology
and certification than fund-raising.
Cheers
Sid
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Hi all,
Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd like
to thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also
mention we are off to a bit of a slow start.
You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest slashdot
http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-cro
wdfund
ing-and-cluelessness
Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be
following the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that
come up. It is also a much better place for this discussion than the
mailing lists. Feel free to vote the story up - as the tale describes,
we can do with all the help we can get!
I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.
Regards,
David
**********************************************************************
This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or protected under state or federal law. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, please delete it, notify the sender immediately, and do not copy, use or disseminate any information in the e-mail. Pursuant to IRS Circular 230, any tax advice in this email may not be used to avoid any penalties imposed under U.S. tax laws. E-mail sent to or from this e-mail address may be monitored, reviewed and archived.
David Hook
2013-12-13 22:51:01 UTC
Permalink
Yes, it seems pretty clear from the sheer volume of downloads we are suffering from a bit of a communications issue. Some people probably also need some time to get used to the whole idea as well.

I'm not sure what the answer to your question about tax is, but I suspect it would be no. Locally, as in here in Oz, we're not deductible either, it's extremely hard to get that for anything that doesn't fall squarely in medical/education/help-to-the-disadvantaged. We do get a range of other benefits which improve our chances of driving a dollar further, but deductibility is not one of them. As far as regular charities go the tax office sees it from the point of view that if someone would donate 100 if it's fully deductible, they'll donate 60 if it's not. Of course, not everyone does maths like that, but I digress...

In any case, anything anyone can do to spread the word would definitely help.

Thanks,

David
Post by Mankowski, Chris
I'm sure there are a number of people who would contribute, once the word gets out.
Does anyone know if donating to an AU nonprofit (like Bouncy Castle) is tax deductible for a US person/company?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Thanks for the suggestion, I think in our case we'd need to avoid anything which placed restrictions on who could access the libraries, although that wouldn't necessarily stop us selling licenses either, so we will be sure to consider what you say. At the moment, if you just consider it on all raw artifacts downloaded a donation around $20 AUD each over the last fortnight would have raised our target, currently we're averaging around 10 cents. It's pretty obvious we're not doing something right.
We were pretty sure when we started that this was more of a campaign than a single battle, and we're certainly keen to focus on something other than fund raising, but we're going to need a few more donations before we're in a position to do that.
Thanks,
David
Post by Sid Shetye
Here are my thoughts on balancing the reality of balancing external,
real world expenses (FIPS certification!) with the objective of having
a great FOSS crypto-library
Price: About USD 100 to 500 (or equivalent currently in developers'
country for, say, 50 cups of Starbucks coffee)
1) Usage of FIPS-140-2 certified binaries AND
2) released within the last 12 months AND
3) for a activity presently generating revenue or an activity directly
supporting previously mentioned revenue-generating activity
Scope: Enterprise level license with free upgrades for 3 years (so if
it's one major server app or a tiny desktop background utility over
5000 PCs - one size fits all)
Price: Donate
Conditions: If doesn't match conditions of commercial license
Scope: Per project
The reason I suggest this is because in corporate America (perhaps
elsewhere too), it's harder to file an expense report under
"donations". It works only if everyone in the purchase authorization
chain "gets" FOSS donations. On the other hand, everyone understands
"software licensing" as its usually a separate line item in the
accounting books and a 3 figured license, for security software, in revenue activities, won't ever be questioned.
I realize there are *many* ways to slice this, but as a non-profit,
that would be my $0.02 so you guys can focus more on the technology
and certification than fund-raising.
Cheers
Sid
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Hi all,
Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd like
to thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also
mention we are off to a bit of a slow start.
You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest slashdot
http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-cro
wdfund
ing-and-cluelessness
Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be
following the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that
come up. It is also a much better place for this discussion than the
mailing lists. Feel free to vote the story up - as the tale describes,
we can do with all the help we can get!
I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.
Regards,
David
**********************************************************************
This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or protected under state or federal law. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, please delete it, notify the sender immediately, and do not copy, use or disseminate any information in the e-mail. Pursuant to IRS Circular 230, any tax advice in this email may not be used to avoid any penalties imposed under U.S. tax laws. E-mail sent to or from this e-mail address may be monitored, reviewed and archived.
Mankowski, Chris
2013-12-14 07:01:22 UTC
Permalink
I have started posting on various Bitcoin related forums on facebook that your accepting donations to rev up to V1.

I think it would be good to add this donation link to the StackExchange profiles of your contributions. I have been dutifully up voting your teams contributions on SO that I found valuable.

Maybe you also have contributions to security.stackexchange.com or crypto.stackexchange.com that readers would find valuable.

FYI - the SE sites only allow soliciting in the "about me page" for your user, not in the actual question or answer. I have gotten Bitcoin donations for my answers so it's possible you'll be more successful with yours.


-----Original Message-----
From: David Hook [mailto:dgh-lQXO3U89oAbxy1ys+oinMti2O/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 5:51 PM
To: Mankowski, Chris
Cc: dev-crypto-csharp-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news


Yes, it seems pretty clear from the sheer volume of downloads we are suffering from a bit of a communications issue. Some people probably also need some time to get used to the whole idea as well.

I'm not sure what the answer to your question about tax is, but I suspect it would be no. Locally, as in here in Oz, we're not deductible either, it's extremely hard to get that for anything that doesn't fall squarely in medical/education/help-to-the-disadvantaged. We do get a range of other benefits which improve our chances of driving a dollar further, but deductibility is not one of them. As far as regular charities go the tax office sees it from the point of view that if someone would donate 100 if it's fully deductible, they'll donate 60 if it's not. Of course, not everyone does maths like that, but I digress...

In any case, anything anyone can do to spread the word would definitely help.

Thanks,

David
Post by Mankowski, Chris
I'm sure there are a number of people who would contribute, once the word gets out.
Does anyone know if donating to an AU nonprofit (like Bouncy Castle) is tax deductible for a US person/company?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, December 13, 2013 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Thanks for the suggestion, I think in our case we'd need to avoid anything which placed restrictions on who could access the libraries, although that wouldn't necessarily stop us selling licenses either, so we will be sure to consider what you say. At the moment, if you just consider it on all raw artifacts downloaded a donation around $20 AUD each over the last fortnight would have raised our target, currently we're averaging around 10 cents. It's pretty obvious we're not doing something right.
We were pretty sure when we started that this was more of a campaign than a single battle, and we're certainly keen to focus on something other than fund raising, but we're going to need a few more donations before we're in a position to do that.
Thanks,
David
Post by Sid Shetye
Here are my thoughts on balancing the reality of balancing external,
real world expenses (FIPS certification!) with the objective of
having a great FOSS crypto-library
Price: About USD 100 to 500 (or equivalent currently in developers'
country for, say, 50 cups of Starbucks coffee)
1) Usage of FIPS-140-2 certified binaries AND
2) released within the last 12 months AND
3) for a activity presently generating revenue or an activity
directly supporting previously mentioned revenue-generating activity
Scope: Enterprise level license with free upgrades for 3 years (so if
it's one major server app or a tiny desktop background utility over
5000 PCs - one size fits all)
Price: Donate
Conditions: If doesn't match conditions of commercial license
Scope: Per project
The reason I suggest this is because in corporate America (perhaps
elsewhere too), it's harder to file an expense report under
"donations". It works only if everyone in the purchase authorization
chain "gets" FOSS donations. On the other hand, everyone understands
"software licensing" as its usually a separate line item in the
accounting books and a 3 figured license, for security software, in revenue activities, won't ever be questioned.
I realize there are *many* ways to slice this, but as a non-profit,
that would be my $0.02 so you guys can focus more on the technology
and certification than fund-raising.
Cheers
Sid
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [dev-crypto-csharp] latest BC news
Hi all,
Just a quick update on where the fundraising is going. First, I'd
like to thank everyone who has donated to date. I think I should also
mention we are off to a bit of a slow start.
You can find the latest details of where we are at in our latest slashdot
http://slashdot.org/submission/3188511/ask-slashdot-cryptographers-cr
o
wdfund
ing-and-cluelessness
Feel free to add a comment or a suggestion if you wish, we'll be
following the thread and endeavouring to reply to any questions that
come up. It is also a much better place for this discussion than the
mailing lists. Feel free to vote the story up - as the tale
describes, we can do with all the help we can get!
I'll report on the progress of the "adventure" next week.
Regards,
David
**********************************************************************
This e-mail may contain information that is privileged, confidential or protected under state or federal law. If you are not an intended recipient of this email, please delete it, notify the sender immediately, and do not copy, use or disseminate any information in the e-mail. Pursuant to IRS Circular 230, any tax advice in this email may not be used to avoid any penalties imposed under U.S. tax laws. E-mail sent to or from this e-mail address may be monitored, reviewed and archived.
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